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how many other vegetarian or vegans are there in this tribe?
I've tried to figure out why I would want to keep a snake that needs to eat mice and and other living entities. I actually recently had mice as pets until I left town and their care taker over fed them peanuts. Maybe it's a good balance for me to have to feed a reptile that NEEDS to eat flesh and bones. Anyways this is all pretty funny to me.
I've tried to figure out why I would want to keep a snake that needs to eat mice and and other living entities. I actually recently had mice as pets until I left town and their care taker over fed them peanuts. Maybe it's a good balance for me to have to feed a reptile that NEEDS to eat flesh and bones. Anyways this is all pretty funny to me.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 12:24 PMHey hey,
I'm a big old meat eater.....but i have a vegan friend who was with me when i got my baby boa.....she loves snakes but had the same issues with feeding....she couldnt deal with live or even frozen mice....fortunetly i live in berkeley and our local vivarium carries vegan sausages for snakes...you just heat them up and you ready to go....thats right your snake can be a vegan!
crazy huh -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Wed, July 27, 2005 - 10:57 AMOh wow, Rebecca! That IS crazy! How funny. I wonder how many people actually use those sausage things?!
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, August 1, 2005 - 7:57 AMeast bay vivarium, rebecca? thats where I bought my snake. do they have the frozen vegan sausage? how long have you fed your snake them? and is your snake completly vegan?
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please dont try to make a vegetarian or vegan out of your snake!
Thu, February 15, 2007 - 8:28 AMsnakes are not people, not omnivores. they are carnivores and you cant make vegans out of them. please dont force your beliefs on your snake. its not healthy for them and its selfish to try to change the way that animal is evolved to exist. im not being nasty, im concerned. its just a bad idea. i dont know who is marketing these things and i hope they arent killing lots of vegans' pets but once again, this is a carnivore, veganism is not an option for them. this is the pet you chose so its a matter of what is best for THEM.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, July 25, 2005 - 4:04 PMi was a vegan when i got my snakes (my reason was that i thought i could not kill an animal myself, and didn't want to pay someone to do it for me and then package it so it didn't look like an animal). ironically, the snakes were actually the reason i eventually started eating meat again, since i had to kill the mice they were eating back when they were babies. i realized i COULD do it afterall, and felt like i could start eating meat again, be it meat that is killed as humanely as possible.
my rationale for being okay with caring for a carnivore while still being vegan was that the snake doesn't have a choice like humans do. of course, i didn't know about the vegan sausages at the vivarium back then! i assume they don't sell them in rabbit size, though, and that's what i'm feeding my boa now.
you're right--the politics of consumption, for both pet and caretaker, can be pretty complex and hilarious!
amberina -
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Unsu...
Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Tue, July 26, 2005 - 3:46 PMI'm vegetarian and my boa was given to me because the owner couldn't take care of her anymore. I'm against the Black Market for making any wild animal domestic. My rationale for taking this boa was to take her out of the hands of someone who didn't have the ability to provide a healthy environment. Like Amberina wrote, this boa didn't have any choice in the matter and rather than barely surviving in a meek existence, I provide a large and healthy one.
My boa only ate live mice. I wasn't having that. I researched it and changed her diet. I fed her live mice, then freshly killed. I did kill a couple of mice which gave me nightmares for weeks. But now I buy frozen, dethaw them and she gobbles them up no problem. It's more humane for both animals. The frozen mice are killed with a quick snap of a vertebrae in the neck instead of some lethal injection. Now that my boa doesn't need to strike, she's quite tame even when I have her food ready.
I don't agree with the vegan food alternative. It's a snake and that's what their system needs. I don't believe a human-made product could possibly recreate the essentials a reptile needs.
I'm not a strict vegetarian because I eat seafood. I don't eat meat because my body feels better without it. I abhor the unnecessary treatment and slaughter of animals for industrial capital gain. Am I guilty of supporting a few rat farms that have the sole purpose of breeding them for food? Yes. Can I live with that? Yes.
Having a carnivorous animal and being a vegan is fine only if you can live with yourself.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Thu, July 28, 2005 - 11:33 AMI am a vegetarian myself. I got my first snake when I was 6 though, and thus didn't become veg until a lot later. I always used to feed live mice and sometimes it would bother me a little bit, but now I always feed frozen mice. However I've had all sorts of rodents as pets before and I really don't know if I will be able to feed him rats and especially not rabbits when he gets bigger....but I'm just going to leave it up to my boyfriend :) Other than that I really don't have problems with it, mostly because as others have said snakes really don't have a choice in the matter. Well good luck and I hope everything works out for you :) -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, August 1, 2005 - 7:55 AMwell, thanks for the replys. Im doing alright with all of this. i fed her one live and one thawed, she did good, but i think feeding her the live one has made her slightly more aggressive, she never use to breathe-hiss at me before. Im going to stick with the thawed. how long do you guys wait before handling your snake after it has eaten? -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Wed, August 3, 2005 - 10:41 AMA good way to keep down their aggression is to feed them in a container separate from their normal enclosure. I just use a rectangular "gladware" container that I poked holes in. The reason behind feeding them in there is so that they do not associate the lid being removed with dinnertime. I must say it hasn't lessened the aggressiveness of my cornsnake (she's evil...lol... she hisses all the time) but it has kept my ball python's temperment very docile.
As to your question about how soon after feeding can you handle them, I usually wait at least a day, but a general rule is to wait until you can no longer see the lump in their belly.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Thu, August 11, 2005 - 10:59 AMAliera had a great point. It's a good idea to feed in a separate container. I too use a large rubbermaid container with holes poked in near the top. This container is for feeding only. I think this has led to my snakes never anticipating food unless they are in this box, thus no agression when hungry. They nevar associate my warm hand reaching in their tank with food because they have never received food there.
I also feed f/t (frozen, thawed) rats to my snakes and they only strike their food occasionally. For the most part they just slither over, open wide, and eat. The possible dangers of feeding live is just not worth it, IMHO. -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Sun, December 25, 2005 - 5:58 PMI used to be a vegetarian until recently. I got into an accident and lost a lot of blood. After getting out of the hospital, I had the worst cravings for meat.
Anyway... I've never minded feeding my snake (Josh) mice. The only bad part for me (and still is) touching the mice. They completely disgust me. I tried to do the whole frozen thing, but Josh refused to eat them so I switched to live mice. He's much happier now.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Wed, November 22, 2006 - 8:24 AMMyah: how long do you guys wait before handling your snake after it has eaten?
Me: If fed the appropriate sized meals for their size a snake will usually digest their food quickly. Most go by the rule of thumb of waiting at least 48 hrs after feeding before handling the snake. If theres still a lump in the belly then wait at least another day. Usually the food is gone by then. Handling them too soon can cause regurgitation and that can be very harmful for the snake.
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, May 14, 2007 - 7:59 AMWe usually let our rosy boa digest his meal for a day or two before handling him..It's very unheathy for a snake to regurgitate it's meal.. Also be sure that you remove your snakes water dish for a couple days during and after feeding.. As for feeding a carnivore a vegan diet... I wouldn't recomend it.. stick with the dead/frozen mice or rabbits..Just remember that it's just nature hard at work.. We used to have a 11 ft. Burmese python that we fed thawed rabbits and gunea pigs and she did just fine with those..
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, August 1, 2005 - 9:11 AMI'm largely a vegetarian; I've starting eating some seafood and occasional poultry. Although, I have been a vegan, and I've been a vegetarian most of my young adult and adult life.
I feed my snake thawed mice. I felt strongly that I could not feel live prey. I felt even more strongly that I couldn't kill or even stun live prey. This led to me not getting a snake until I learned about the frozen alternative. It's still a little hard for me, but I understand that my snake needs it to live.
I've gotten crap from a couple people about being "vegetarian" and having a snake. I think that it's very stupid. I have cats, and have had them the majority of my life, and they are carnivorous. Just because their food comes in a bad and isn't recognizable as meat doesn't mean that it is any different than a mouse.
I think that having a snake has been good for me. The cycle of life isn't always kind, and some creatures need to eat others to survive. It's also been great to not just overcome a fear (of snakes), but to be able to embrace them. -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Mon, November 27, 2006 - 12:29 AMagreed in not choosing for your snake to be vegan, as it could be unhealthy for the snake.
i'm encouraged by hearing from other vegetarians about your perspectives. i became vegetarian 10 years ago, and then soon craved fish, which i had always hated, and added fish/seafood to my diet. all until about a month ago, when for various reasons i began eating meat again. my body is much happier, but i still struggle with the moral dilemma of eating what i myself am not sure if i could kill, as well as the quality of environment most farmed animals are raised in. i echo elliah's sentiment on feeding her snake being a beneficial experience. i see how it could be valuable.
i actually haven't introduced myself yet, but i couldn't resist this topic. i'm in the research phase of acquiring a snake, something i've wanted for a while (especially to belly dance with). any others in southern california?
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Tue, August 9, 2005 - 11:02 AMWhile I think this topic is very interesting ... I think it is important to take note of an important fact: Boas are carnivorous creatures.
While our bodies are omnivorous and we have evolved to take nourishment from both plants and animals, these creatures have not. I am a bit concerned about the long term effect a vegan diet would have on a carnivorous snake. Remember, we are in charge of these magnificent animals and it is our responsibility to make sure they are healthy. They consume only living prey in the wild. This is what their system is designed for. When we take on the responsibility of owning a snake, we take on this issue. It is a fact that has to be dealt with. I would say if it bothers you, then maybe a snake is not for you, and there is nothing wrong with that.
How can we put human ideals onto an animal that goes against its very nature because meat eating bothers ~us~? It just seems rather cruel to me. Especially since the snake vegetarian diet has not had long term testing.
Like it or not, meat has properties that just cannot be obtained through a vegan diet and when an animal's entire eating system was developed solely for meat, you have to wonder what we are doing to them internally that we may not see for years to come, if they live long at all.
I am all for human beings having the choice to be vegan, and I am not slighting that lifestyle. But these are snakes, not human beings. Everyone is so supportive here, and I think that's great, but politeness should still give way to reason and fact. I would just put out there to think of these facts. Ultimately your choice is your own, and I respect that. Just think about it. -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Tue, November 21, 2006 - 4:23 PMi fully agree with you, lotus, and anyone else who does NOT try to make a vegetarian out of their snake. i used to be vegetarian but i never thought it was right to force my lifestyle/dietary/philosophical choices on either of my strictly carnivorous pets, cat or snake. they are evolved as meat eaters and especially with the snake, its not simply about protein. your snake digests EVERYTHING, bone, fur, the works, therefore its ludicrous to try to feed them a sausage and that be ok. also theres the process of converting all those things to the necessary nutrients that is important and cant just be skipped. im sure these are "special" sausages and hope deeply that they thought this through and there arent a bunch of malnourished snakes in the Berkley area. i think its a step too far in forcing our animal friends to be humans. they are not. in two years, when i am a practicing veterinarian i plan on giving a serious talking-to to my more modern clients who consider veganizing their pets. its just not putting their pets best interests first, its selfish. ill get off my soapbox now... -
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Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Tue, November 28, 2006 - 5:50 AMwow...I'm late on this ....great thread! I agree with keeping an animal on its diet...I have two dogs, and when I was a hard core vegitarian (not so now...I eat fish and eggs) I tried to get my dogs on this "vegetarian" dog food....they got thinner...their coats lost all of their shine and they didn't have as much energy...it was a VERY noticable difference. I put them back on regular dog food and within one week they looked better.....The vegitarian dog food was hard to find and expensive as heck....it was just another cosumer gimic to fulfill the ego needs of an over enthusiastic vegitarian/vegan....Taking our egos out and seeing what is truly in the natural best interest of the pet is healiest in my opinion....That is funny about the vegan sausage. There is also the idea that the more food is taken away from its "natural" source the less prana (energy) it has ....so this vegan sausage is processed in a manner that what ever it is made out of has less energy for the animal than if you just gave the snake the ingredients fresh. Even dog and cat food is not as healthy for our animals vs. them eating a fresh kill......our snakes are getting loads of prana by eating mice...even frozen mice hold the energy somewhat just like a frozen vegi does for us.....a fresh mouse would be the highest energy level but as we all know there are reasons why we generaly prefer the mice on ice option. Happy pet feeding to everyone....
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Unsu...
Re: Vegans with reptiles!
Thu, February 15, 2007 - 8:33 AMI am a vegetarian! And I own 5 snakes :-)